Many thanks for the newest estimate that i had not seen ahead of

I’m not sure if you had access to Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Origins or perhaps not, since it is actually composed just like the a research to possess People in america having colonial ancestors out-of Plantagenet descent. The guy offers as one of their proofs one Joanna is the new mom from Gwladus Ddu the reality that Llewelyn gave the fresh attributes away from Knighton and you will Norton castles in the Shropshire so you’re able to Ralph Mortimer when the guy and you can Gwladus were married. It would was indeed unlawful to have Llewelyn provide Joanna’s assets so you can a keen illegitimate daughter (or person who wasn’t a child off Joanna). New properties regarding Norton and you can Knighton stayed on Mortimer household members afterwards. Brand new quotation is actually, “When the new Queen give Belongings so you can one which have an excellent lady out of their kindred in frank relationships, and the lady dyeth versus thing, the man regarding Kings situation shall maybe not wait having his existence, because woman caused the the latest provide.” To phrase it differently, the brand new properties might have reverted back once again to the new crown ahead of they would-have-been made available to a baby who was not Joanna’s.

Hello, Marilyn, I didn’t gain access to the new Plantaganet Origins by the Doug Richardson, but performed get access to many discussions involving him and you may their concepts along with other genealogists (certain for your, but some including up against). I do believe, once i produced in my personal earlier in the day papers, that exactly what shifts it personally(Joanna as being the mommy off Gwladus), ‘s the import of the functions your mention so you can Ralph de- Mortimer upon their ed a couple of the children ‘John’ and you will ‘Joan.’ I can not suppose that in the event the Gwladus was actually the fresh ded their own students hence. Regardless of the objections amongst the eminent genealogists I speak about over, there is certainly a broad opinion one to Gwladus Ddu will be relatively identified as the child of Llywelyn ab Iorwerth of the Joanna, daughter (subsequently legitimised) out-of John, King from England. Let me grab this possible opportunity to go along with Sharon (from inside the a message in my experience) one to Llywelyn’s daughter Gwenllian are by the Tangwystyl and never Joanna, thereby becoming bloodstream aunt to Gruffudd. We feet which partially on the a contemporary record included in ‘Royal or any other Historical characters Illustrative of your leadership out of Henry 111,’ edited of the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol 1. Into the profiles five-hundred-503 is the transcript regarding exclusive page dated Marshall, Earl from Pembroke, in order to King Henry 111. Within page, Marshall discusses their siege of your own castles off Crum Van bride, Kilmore and you can O’Realy. The guy lists the folks he based in the castle O’Realy whenever it surrendered, they integrated: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de patre et matre, et uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, ainsi que mater dictorum Willelmi mais aussi Thomae ….” I’m informed that the means i’ve right here Gwenllian, child from Prince llywelyn, just who seems to be named ‘brother regarding Gruffudd.’ As we know Gruffudd to be the latest illegitimate young buck out-of Llywelyn, it is pulled one to ‘de- patre mais aussi matre’ implies that Gwenllian and you will Gruffudd have been full bloodstream sister and you will cousin. Got Gwenllian started Joanna’s daughter and that King Henry’s niece, absolutely Marshall will have mentioned on that truth? Which incapacity from de Lacy’s partner as king’s relative, try drawn as close specific research one Gwenllian wasn’t the newest child of the king’s brother Joanna.

This type of attributes had been part of Joanna’s maritagium regarding their dad Queen John

Ken: Thanks for you to regard to Gwenllian. I am certainly not a professional genealogist, however, I actually do an abundance of research on my own traces. In my opinion some of the “pros” are extremely envious and mad of any almost every other (no less than it seems that ways in some of everything they blog post). You can find things that we have been not going to learn with confidence regarding people in brand new MA while they don’t remain public information like we manage now, thus genealogists and historians need to use their finest view during the sorting some thing out. Actually, public information is a pretty “new” layout – of several says within the united states did not remain ideas away from births and fatalities till the early 1900’s. We end up in several ancestry societies where I have had so you can show eleven or 12 generations, and you may trust in me it is not easy. And so i really appreciate the situation away from researching MA ancestors. (Additionally the sad thing is that the records available to the MA was of your royalty and nobility – little anyway with the prominent anybody).